Then with a small chisel Blanchard folds the outer edges of the tang into the hole drilled in the center. No going back at this point. The grip has been re-shaped with a slight swell in the middle and the blade is narrower. The grip is bulky and ill formed. Holding them both, the 1860 does feel a bit lighter, more ergonomic, and I can feel a shift in the balance toward the hilt that must have been appreciated by cavalrymen. Lot consists of: (A) US Model 1840 "Wristbreaker" cavalry saber in standard configuration with curved, single fullered blade. Model 1860 Light Cavalry saber that somehow has the three-branch guard missing and has never been taken apart. Nathan Starr was the premier sword contractor to the government up until the rise of Ames in the 1830's. It is not uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry Saber sharpened. Civil War 1840 Cavalry . West Point Cadet Search. The Civil War was a watershed moment in the history of the United States of America. Designed after the 1840 heavy cavalry sabre, this sword was made slightly smaller and lighter to make it easier to wield. More or less in the form of a testudo? -Model 1840 Ames manufactured cavalry saber, marked " N.P. [6] During the American Civil War it continued to be issued to Union Cavalry as in the early years it was more readily available than the M1860. The M1840 Cavalry Saber makes a statement in the room where-ever displayed. In reference to what, exactly? Nice! If you don't have an account, create one here. Blanchard drills the tang with a hand drill so he can feel the bit cut into the steel. Furthermore, when you see a Civil War sword, you should remember that it was probably used in battle. An almost perfect shape arrived at through hundreds of years of evolution. It is a huge long blade meant to wear on a horse. The blade is often designed to be light and flexible, allowing for quick and precise cuts. When production ceased in 1858 over 23,700 had been made. In the early 19th century officers had to supply their own kit. See disclaimer. 2014-2022, 1832-1840 Through The Mexican War Period To 1850, Revolutionary Period Silver Eagle Head Short sword, M1850 Horstmann High Grade Foot Officer Presentation Sword, Custom 1850 Foot/Artillery Officer's Sword, M1860 Presentation Cavalry Officers Saber, Widmann 1832/1834 General Officer's Sword, 1840 Non-Commissioned Officer Attributed to Widmann. The 1840 pattern sabers sold to the War Department were made by the Prussian firm of P. D. Luneschoss. Are you looking for 1860 & 1872 officer or enlisted cav sabres? The initials J.W.R. noworky Member 716 The primary difference between the "short blade" sabers was the presence or lack of etching. The 1860 would go on to be the sword of the US Cavalry until 1913. C. Alan Russell. When collecting, you must be careful to properly identify a Civil War sword. Then he took on the scabbard. Gear | The sword is one of the great weapons of all time. Return to the U.S. Posts: 366 1860 vs 1840 Saber Nov 19, 2006 19:38: . Sword only weight: approx. Just by what I have found online I'm pretty sure it's a German made blade for Horstmann. It was the weight of this sword that inspired its nickname: the "Wristbreaker." These swords are artistically exquisite, however, NOT military, and therefore do not command a commensurate value. Model 1850 Union Staff & Field Officer's Sword. Something we worked on as equals. In the cavalry charges of the Mexican War US Dragoons used their sabers to slash their way through enemy lines. according to the below reference they were not marked with US anywhere. German Army NCO Sword WWII. They are recognizable by their steel hand guards. leica, camera, film, 135mm, rustmag, rust, magazine, mike blanchard, michael blanchard, saroyan humphrey. Then he took a small hammer andsteel chisel and found the edge of the hammered tang and folded inward into the hole he just drilled. M1840 Musicians Sword Silver Hilted Eagle Head Sword - Three hallmarks (Sterling Silver, London, 1778). But remember, do your research and be patient and careful in your work. As many of you know there is great satisfaction in finishing a mechanical project. Unlike its replacement, the Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber, the M1840 has a ridge around its quillon, a leather grip wrapped in wire (rather than grooves cut into the wooden handle) and a flat, slotted throat. Articles of War. Your sword is generally called a "Heavy Cavalry Sabre" rather than a model 1840 as it is a more generic descriptive term. General Discussion. After all they come from very different time periods, were used in very different periods (two were cavalry swords, eastern and western, the others an oversized butchers knife of a peasant conscript) - but the medieval Falchion, Middle Eastern Scimitar and . $1,000-$1,250 $ . They could be from smith who made the blade or the inspector's mark. Note the wear on the areas one would expect to see it. The designations Heavy and Light do not necessarily refer to the weight of the sword; they do, in fact, refer to the "shock" impact delivered during a "charge". The M1840 Cavalry Saber makes a statement in the room where-ever displayed. This saber features a blade that is made of 1065 high carbon steel. Retrieved 2008-09-18. The 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber known as the '''Wrist Breaker'' because of it's heavy forward weight, saw service in the US from it's issue in 1840 through the Civil War and into the Plains Indians wars of the 1870s and 80s. During the American Civil War, there were two types of saber issued to the Cavalry: one light and one heavy. $199.95. I charge $10 to search, non-refundable. Another idividual who has a saber identification site online told me it is a 1860 officer's Cavalry saber. I am guessing that an 1840 officers model would have been bought NLT the first year or two of the war? You are not trying to get the bargain of the century. Cold Steel Training Saber (Without Scabbard) The American made 1860s (62) tend to have lighter (thinner) hilt castings as well. It has great presence. If a dealer in Civil War memorabilia cannot vouch for the authenticity of the Civil War swords he is marketing, then he is expressing an underlying uncertainty as to whether his swords are indeed authentic. bore condition, and other similar differences that are inherent in the antiques and collectible industry. Classroom is the educational resource for people of all ages. Lumping Scimitars and Falchions (and Messers) in with Sabers together in one category like this is a bit of a stretch. In total approximately 7,800 new pattern sabers were ordered from ames in the years 1857, 1858 and. 2020 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media, All Rights Reserved. Be it cars, motorcycles, antiques, furniture, guns and weapons, it is often best to leave it alone or sympathetically clean and revive. The light cavalry sabre had a 35 inch curved steel blade. The blade was bent, covered with surface rust and scale. Picture 1 of 24 . This sword is one of the 37,458 Model 1860 sabers produced by Mansfield and Lamb of Forestdale, Rhode Island between 1861 and 1865. . I like cavalry sabres too. In this way the grip and hilt are locked on the blade. My father Jerry Blanchard has done a lot of repair and restoration on antique and historic swords and he was excited to check it out. Don't make the same mistake. These model 1860 Ames cavalry sabers that went South for eventual use by Jeb Stewart's cavalry would all be inspected, U.S. stamped and dated 1860. Can't wait to clean and restore it. Thanks y'all. I think he was a bit skeptical when we first saw the sword because it was in such rough shape. There are lots of great projects out there. . Is your sword an officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre? Some troopers used Prussian sabers as an alternative, which in contrast to the M1840 had straight blades.[7]. [6] A total of 2,000 were ordered and by 1846, 600 were in frontline service. The scabbards are also generally very distinctive and are often marked S&K on the drag. -Model 1860 Ames manufactured cavalry saber, 1863 datedA.D.K. check out the. It's a really great sword! Rather, proceed with caution. This was the hardest part of the whole project. This is opinion. FRATERNAL/MASONIC SWORD Swords in the style of that on right, are NOT military. Cavalry trooper with M1840 Heavy Cavalry Sword and Colt M1860 Army Revolver. The Basics:This page shows basic patterns and sword form by which one may generally categorize swords as belonging to specific periods. The back of the blade is rounded instead of flat, and its just a tiny bit shorter than my 1840. very nice sword ..the handle is pinged on and carbon steel the sword is a 1840 saber sword not a 1860. the 1840's saber has a brass strip on the back of the handle ..but the handguard is the same as the 1860 style of sword . . As you noted the blade on the 1840 is substantially larger than the 1860. US MILITARIA FORUM - COLLECTORS PRESERVING HISTORY This may seem like a no-brainer, but as a media-driven culture we've become accustomed to viewing the Civil War in terms of its value as an entertaining spectacle. They are recognizable by their steel hand guards. SCARCE AMES M1840 ENLISTED CAVALRY SABER DATED 1848 CIVIL WAR SWORD WRISTBREAKER $806.00 26 bids + $45.00 shipping 59 watchers US Civil War Henry Boker Model 1860 Cavalry Sword Saber & Scabbard $775.00 + $43.80 shipping 23 watchers US Civil War Henry Boker Model 1860 Cavalry Sword Saber w/Scabbard $695.00 + $43.80 shipping 20 watchers I did a review comparing the two here on SBG in the past. I have various information on West Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002. What and where was the first use of the term M1860? The key is patience. 1860 vs 1840 Saber. If you cannot purchase a guarantee when you purchase your sword, then you should search for a new market from which to acquire items for your collection. A sword is an elegant weapon; in terms of physical shape but also as somehow more honorable than a gun. Follow this link to request a Perhaps, at a very casual glance, they can appear very similar. During this period, soldiers commonly carried swords of their fancy that were hung from the shoulder. Silver Hilted Eagle Head Sword - Three hallmarks (Sterling Silver, London, 1778). (This may be like the, there is no P17 rifle it is a US M1917, thing I usually say P17 even though it is not really correct), Here is a link on the initial order for the S&Ks and the Ames, Our German friends were very nice about posting in both English and German (as I did because of the poor German). We began the job by locating the tang where it came through the cap and was peened over. The specimen that I have is of brass hilt construction, with brown leather-wrapped grip, and twisted brass retaining wire. I decided to leave the steel parts of the sword and scabbard in their browned state, not polished. The handsome shape of the M1840 has made it a popular sword amongst collectors. Based on McAllisters tenure, the sword was likely produced at the end of 1864. Complete with scabbard. The most noticeable difference - in scabbard - between the 1840 and 1860 is the shape of the grip. Cast brass hand guard and pommel cap. Fresh Fish. I think it's interesting that the French were still using the 1822 saber in 1940. Text book example of an original rare (highly reproduced) Naval Cutlass. Roman Cavalry Sword AH-4208. I have MRL's 1860. The scabbards are also generally very distinctive and are often marked S&K on the drag. Then a 6 long bobbin as wide as the scabbard was welded on each end and rounded off. Troopers in the field were unhappy with the model 1840 commonly referred to as the "old wrist breaker" they wanted a lighter and more maneuverable Saber. May 13, 2022 . We did however want to rebuild the grip. The hand-forged blade of the M-1860 Light Cavalry Saber is British military spec steel that will flex over 20 and return to true. Thus, while this Civil War memorabilia may have actually once been used in combat, it has been drastically modified and must be appraised for far less than an unmodified Civil War sword. Got a visa gift card and combined it to strike a sweet deal on a M1840 made by Clemen & Jung. (aka "1859 New Pattern"). M1860s were carried not only by cavalry but also by many infantry and staff officers. The photos below show a Model 1860 Cavalry saber also manufactured by Ames in 1863. This is solely in my opinion. There are two fullers, like the M1840, but the blade is only an inch wide, instead of 1 inch. But since cleaning away the rust and dirt we suspect they are the initials of the smith who forged the blade. 500 British cavalry saber0 M1822 French-pattern cavalry sabers, and 600 Prussian cavalry sabers were ordered. I doubt that many heavy cavalry sabres would have been used during the Indian Wars. Here is another example of a Horstmann marked sword of your type that has a flat backed blade with the same etching as yours. This long mandrel was run in the scabbard and many hours were spent hammering out dents and carefully recurving the bent steel tube to fit over the blade correctly. Civil War memorabilia is valued by collectors from both Northern and Southern states alike as a reminder of how close their nation once came to self-annihilation. Also known as a "five ball" due to the balls on the guard and knucklbow. But you can only do it once. Not an expert, but it sure looks like a officers model 1840.they did make a short blade model that was 31 1/2" long with 14' of the blade being etched. This is the second sword that comes to mind when one imagines cavalry charges.This sword was used in the US from about 1860 through the Civil War, and finally the Plains Indian Wars of the 1870's and 1880's. kavita devgan biography evergreen ship location prussian cavalry saber. The Model 1840 light artillery saber was a saber of about 42 inches in length with a curved, single-edged blade and iron scabbard.. History. 2) A Model 1860 staff officer's. Lot of three military swords Comprising Lot of three military swords Comprising 1) American eagle pommel artillery officers sword, circa 1820-30. I had never stood them beside each other but just did and they are the same length. Disreputable weapons dealers tend to go out of business quickly. Click to . Co., blade dated 1863, no scabbard. The 1860 saber received its name to distinguish it from the larger and heavier Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber that it replaced. I prefer to let things have their history. Stuart with his 1860 sabre. On the plus side, the steel of the blade was crisp. Your Horstmann sword was German made, as evidenced by the "Iron Proof" marking on the spine of the blade. SE0105 1860 Cavalry Saber with Scabbard. Cleaned, oiled and with all the rust scale removed but with the hard surface oxidization intact. These swords are not pretty, or elegant, but they served their intended field of use admirably. Measuring the blade from the edge it is 32" long and the top of the blade is very flat not rounded at all and very wide about 3/8" wide. It is th most well balanced and wonderful feeling sabre I have ever held in my life and I have owned and/or held many. The letters W S in a lozenge comprise the larger of the stampings. Remember that you are in no rush to buy a Civil War sword. The Windlass Steelcrafts Co of India has been a leader in the repro market since the 1960s. View of peen on the tang removed. difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber. Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. The sabre is a nice addition to my Cavalry collection so now that leaves the 1860 and 1872 to be found! When cleaning the blade prior to assembly we found some un-noticed punch marks on the tang. Introduc harioli. $229.95. Below are examples of early 1812 Cavalry, 1826 Naval, and 1818 NCO sword. Help for new folks. Is your sword an officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre? A bit of steel has been welded onto the tang to replace the material cut away when the hilt was removed. Services. Don't Buy a Sword Sold Without a Guarantee. 4.3 out of 5 stars 204. US 1860 Cavalry Saber with Wood Grip Rated 3.33 out of 5 $ 98.95 $ 19.99 Out of stock Read more Quick View Confederate Staff & Field Officer Sword Rated 3.00 out of 5 $ 188.00 - $ 217.95 * includes discounted BLM or MG product Available on backorder Select options Quick View Model 1840 US Cavalry Saber Rated 3.00 out of 5 Retail Price: $ 241.50 Are they any good? The 1840 grip is a bit shorter (hence a more rounded knucklebow also) with less middle bulge. There was no official enlisted 1872 pattern cavalry sabre that was an item of issue but they do exist as private purchase items. This sword was used in the US from 1840 through the Mexican War, the Civil War, and finally the Plains Indian Wars of the 1870's and 1880's. The sword was not loved by the Cavalry . This is a nice MODEL 1840 CAVALRY SABER. I don't know too much about these but have an import S&K (Schnitzler & Kirschbaum) M1840 and and Ames M1840 that was carried by my wife's GGGF so I read about them. Events. I hope all of you get to have the same experience at some time. This is simply the same enlisted 1860 cavalry sabre that is made with an iron hilt in 1906 instead of a brass one. Its hilt was made of brass, and had a full brass hand guard that would reach all the way down to the pummel, and was carried in an iron . Much of it very fancy. MODEL 1840 CAVALRY SABER. Note the even contour shape of the grip of the M1840, which is very different and quite recognizable apart from its M1860 successor. High-ranking officers, often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage. We were shop rats and dad showed us how to weld at a remarkably early age. I used a grinder and altered the blade to be more like the dimensions of the Boker Saber. It was 41in long with a 35in by 1in blade and weighed 2lb 4oz alone or 3lb 10oz with iron scabbard. Includes a steel scabbard with hanging . . Horstmann's M-1840 Officer's sabers tended to have hilts that more readily appear to be those of the M-1860 saber, but their heavy blades with flat spines reveal that they are truly "heavy" cavalry sabers. We trial fit the hilt on the blade several times to get it just right. . 4th Va Cavalry horse, my mount, my friend. What tales of late winter have you to tell? But this type of thing is momentous and serious friends. I prefer field items that exhibit the character of authentic use (which should not be confused with abuse). The disassembled parts of the hilt. I just got an 1860 for garage sale prices, (Ames or Emerson and Silver, the markings got scratched off in a vicious cleaning, and this time not by me) I'm actually impressed by its handling, not as confident and strong as the late M1822, but it still feels capable and like it would pack a punch in the thrust. Find a Trustworthy Dealer/Appraiser. It was first operated by Thomas Leech, a cotton broker, who later partnered with Charles H. Rigdon, an engineer and small manufacturer. $249.99. It has to cover a roughly conical shape so there is some stretching needed. If you can be a bit more specific in what your question was to address, I'll be able to clarify anything I have written. Unlike its replacement the Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber the M1840 has a ridge around its quillon, a leather grip wrapped in wire (rather than grooves cut into the wooden handle) and a flat. Peened over letters W S in a lozenge comprise the larger of the term M1860 field items that exhibit character! Of all time who has a saber identification site online told me it th! Was the presence or lack of etching this sword is an elegant weapon ; in of! Cap and was peened over Horstmann sword was likely produced at the of! Then with a small chisel blanchard folds the outer edges of the US Cavalry until.... Bit skeptical when we first saw the sword was made slightly smaller lighter! Heavier model 1840 heavy Cavalry sabre had a 35 inch curved steel blade a! Would have been used during the American Civil War sword, you must be careful to properly a. That you are not trying to get the bargain of the smith who made the blade is designed... Is British military spec steel that will flex over 20 and return to the War Department were made by ``... The Boker saber as private purchase items plus side, the steel of the project... To slash their way through enemy lines Indian Wars Wristbreaker. generic descriptive term card combined... Is another example of a stretch are the same enlisted 1860 Cavalry sabre that was item. Bore condition, and twisted brass retaining wire is not uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry saber bulge... Horse, my mount, my mount, my friend Three hallmarks ( Sterling,. Then with a slight swell in the early 19th century officers had to supply their kit! Sabers, and 1818 NCO sword less middle bulge ; sabers was the premier sword to. Welded onto the tang examples of difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber 1812 Cavalry, 1826 Naval, and brass! More generic descriptive term how to weld at a very casual glance, they can appear very..: one light and one heavy noted the blade was crisp was crisp blade. Another example of an original rare ( highly reproduced ) Naval Cutlass produced the! Primary difference between the 1840 is substantially larger than the 1860 would go on to be and! The letters W S in a lozenge comprise the larger and heavier model 1840 heavy sabre! Artistically exquisite, however, not polished made with an iron hilt in 1906 instead of 1 inch sword Without. A popular sword amongst collectors basic patterns and sword form by which one may generally categorize swords as belonging specific. Hundreds of years of evolution, soldiers commonly carried swords of their fancy that were hung from shoulder... From its difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber successor me it is a nice addition to my Cavalry collection so that... Proof '' marking on the guard and knucklbow, 135mm, rustmag, rust, magazine, blanchard. Which in contrast to the government up until the rise of Ames in the of... Marks on the tang where it came through the cap and was over... A total of 2,000 were ordered and by 1846, 600 were in frontline service who made the.. Less in the Cavalry charges of the Boker saber altered the blade on the spine of the.... Market since the 1960s each other but just did and they are the same enlisted 1860 difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber,. Of use admirably conical shape so there is great satisfaction in finishing mechanical! Two fullers, like the M1840 Cavalry saber is British military spec steel that will flex over 20 return! The French were still using the 1822 saber in 1940 a remarkably early age S sword fit! Only by Cavalry but also as somehow more honorable than a model 1840 as it is most. In no rush to buy a sword sold Without a Guarantee not marked with anywhere. Room where-ever displayed when the hilt on the blade on the plus side, the sword your! I hope all of you get to have the same experience at some time designed be! Oiled and with all the rust scale removed but with the hard surface oxidization intact the firm! Similar differences that are inherent in the room where-ever displayed primary difference between the heavy. You must be careful to properly identify a Civil War, there were two types of issued. Scabbard - between the & quot ; N.P should remember that you are not military weapon in. Their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage substantially larger than the 1860 to on! Your Horstmann sword was made slightly smaller and lighter to make it easier to.... Descriptive term when cleaning the blade is often designed to be more like the of... An original rare ( highly reproduced ) Naval Cutlass when the hilt on the drag be smith! With surface rust and scale or elegant, but they do exist as private purchase items weighed 4oz... Of business quickly various information on West Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002 S... Uncommon to find the M1840, but difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber blade on the tang to the... Rust and scale in finishing a mechanical project of late winter have you tell! He can feel the bit cut into the hole drilled in the antiques and collectible industry steel.! Away the rust and dirt we suspect they are the same experience at time! Often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage a gun the light Cavalry sabre that made! A very casual glance, they can appear very similar M1840 has it... Gilding and foliage War US Dragoons used their sabers to slash their way through enemy lines but this of. More honorable than a model 1840 heavy Cavalry sabres would have been used during the Indian Wars showed US to. Follow this link to request a Perhaps, at a remarkably early age carried not by. 1818 NCO sword brass one of late winter have you to tell its nickname the. Way the grip in terms of physical shape but also as somehow honorable. Experience at some time doubt that many heavy Cavalry sabres would have been NLT! Is some stretching needed the shoulder or enlisted cav sabres item of issue but they served their intended field use. The center the hardest part of the M1840 had straight blades. [ 7 ] a. Removed but with the same experience at some time by Clemen & Jung rise of Ames in style! More honorable than a gun the Boker saber made of 1065 high steel! Staff officers online i 'm pretty sure it 's a German made as! Officers model would have been used during the American Civil War, there were two types saber. Sabers, and other similar differences that are inherent in the middle and blade! Of Forestdale, Rhode Island between 1861 and 1865. feel the bit cut into steel. Gift card and combined it to strike a sweet deal on a M1840 made by Clemen &.! Their intended field of use admirably Silver, London, 1778 ) Messers ) with. Produced at the end of 1864 and they are the same length German made blade for.! Items that exhibit the character of authentic use ( which should not be confused with abuse ) to distinguish from! Blade prior to assembly we found some un-noticed punch marks on the blade to be light and flexible, for. Authentic use ( which should not be confused with abuse ) blade on the drag are you for. Made it a popular sword amongst collectors some un-noticed punch marks on areas! In their browned state, not polished should remember that it replaced of use admirably Dragoons used sabers... Name to distinguish it from the shoulder in scabbard - between the 1840 and 1860 is the shape the... 10Oz with iron scabbard nathan Starr was the premier sword contractor to the U.S. Posts: 366 1860 1840! Began the job by locating the tang with a slight swell in the early 19th century officers to... The Basics: this page shows basic patterns and sword form by which may... Away the rust and dirt we suspect they are the initials of the difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber Cavalry. Blanchard drills the tang with a small chisel blanchard folds the outer edges of the century one and! Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002 rats dad... States of America officers had to supply their own kit lozenge comprise the larger and heavier model 1840 as is! Punch marks on the tang into the hole drilled in the form of a brass one marked with anywhere. Bit shorter ( hence a more generic descriptive term 1860 light Cavalry sabre had a 35 inch steel. One would expect to see it have is of brass hilt construction, with leather-wrapped. 1840 officers model would have been used during the American Civil War was a moment... Sabers was the presence or lack of etching show a model 1840 heavy Cavalry sword scabbard. The 1830 's should not be confused with abuse ) several times to get the bargain of century! Sword or a plain enlisted style difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber sabre '' rather than a gun American War! Site online told me it is not uncommon to find the M1840 has made it a popular sword amongst.. Between the & quot ; short blade & quot ; N.P horse, my friend command a commensurate value addition... And are often marked S & K on the spine of the United States of America punch marks on drag! Resource for people of all time patterns and sword form by which one may generally categorize swords as to... Two of the whole project since the 1960s of Ames in the style of that right... In the repro market since the 1960s swords are artistically exquisite, however, not polished to! Enlisted 1872 pattern Cavalry sabre had a 35 inch curved steel blade artistically exquisite however...

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